Beware of the Groupon piranhas eating you alive!
This is a cautionary tale for anyone who may think of offering a deal through Groupon, the group-buying site that promises great deals for customers and great exposure for businesses.
The idea is that, as a business, you offer a special deal on the Groupon web site. For example a restaurant may offer a meal-for-two worth £200 for the bargain price of £80. Groupon takes a 50% cut so the restaurant gets £40 which should be enough to cover the actual cost of the food, plus they’ve had some good exposure and, hopefully, the few hundred people who bought the deal will go back another day and pay full price. Maybe they’ll even become regular customers.
But look at what happened to one independent photographer in Somerset:
He offered a £200 portrait package for £29, which was bought by 301 people.
Let’s break that down…
Firstly the photographer will only get £14.50 because Groupon takes half. And if the client pays by credit card, which they probably will, then the photographer has to pay the credit card fee, so he’s only getting around £12.
Each shoot lasts one hour, but it can be anywhere the client chooses within 15 miles of Bristol city centre. So let’s suppose the total time for travel is half an hour each way, plus 20 minutes to set-up lighting and background and 10 minutes to tear it all down at the end. Already he’s up to 2.5 hours so he’s charging £4.80 per hour, not taking fuel costs in to account.
"Every photo taken will be put on CD or DVD in high resolution" — this is fairly trivial, let’s say 15 minutes work and £1 for the disc and case. He’s now getting the equivalent of £4 per hour.
But the deal gets better! "20 of the images will be professionally edited and air brushed" — now I assume this is nothing more than a bit of spot removal and some minor tweaks, because there’s no way you can do a full retouching job as part of a £29 package, and there’s certainly no way you can do 20 of them. So we’ll estimate a super-speedy 5 minutes per picture and imagine that he somehow gets the whole lot done in 2 hours. He’s now on £2.32 per hour.
Anything else included? Yes! You get "one 12×10 framed print, two 10×8 prints, two 8×6 prints, two 5×4 prints, two 4×3 prints, and two 3×2 prints" — a total of 11 prints, with the largest one framed. I’d estimate the absolute rock-bottom price for producing those prints will be £8 plus another £5 for the frame if he’s buying in bulk. That’s £13. That’s more than he’s getting from each client, and he’s got 301 clients to make his way through.
Even if this photographer is doing each job to a bare minimum standard, he has committed himself to nearly a year’s work for no money. If that doesn’t sound like good business sense to you then be very careful if you decide to offer a deal through Groupon or any similar site. What may at first seem like success could very easily put you out of business.


about 2 years ago
very superficial. If he can up-sell half those folks he’ll make a quit a few bucks. A couple extra prints here a photo cd there…. . you know thats what he’s trying to do, right?
about 2 years ago
~ Any damn fool can put on a deal, but it takes genius, faith and perseverance to create a brand. ~ David Ogilvy
about 2 years ago
What he did wrong in this situation is offer too much up front. What it should have been a £200 shoot with nothing else done became a £200 shoot, and everything else should have been ‘upgrades’. That said, I know someone who has had dealings with Groupon and he said that they were plain nasty to deal with and what was originally a good deal for him became a nightmare quickly and the specifications he laid out were ignored.
about 2 years ago
What the article doesn’t mention is that it is calculating the prices based solely on people only using the Groupon. They don’t. When you get the results you want extras or re-prints. This is where the make-up money is made.
In addition you show them to friends and talk about how great this company was so it drives business to this company at full price and more importantly it spurs new business because people who weren’t thinking about getting a photograph taken like the results and decide to get one too. Plus not only is this new business but it is driven to this business and since you don’t get photographs taken all of the time, it takes that business away from the competitors.
Sales aren’t generally about generating more business they are as much about taking service away from your competitors.
And for the record this comes directly from a photographer via a groupon. It spurred some 3x as many sales as they thought they would get and people spent a lot of extra money on duplicate prints and that is a the cash source because you are just duplicating an existing photo. The cost of that extra photo is only for the paper and ink but it is bought at full price, so all of that profits props up the discounted price of the rest of it.
The article is nice as it stands but you simply can’t ignore the up-sell/extras. For example in the restaurant case it is likely that most people will order a little more – perhaps desert to take home or alcoholic drinks – because they are already “saving” money. And too, as one other commenter mentioned, the Groupon isn’t always redeemed in time so in that case the photographer got $14.50 for nothing.
about 2 years ago
Well Andrew – posting this yourself on slashdot DID seem to get you a lot of hits to your site…
about 2 years ago
Some dummy bit off more than he could chew at a low price, and I’m supposed to have sympathy for him? This isn’t Groupon’s fault, nor the customers he sold his services too. He’s simply an idiot, apparently.
about 2 years ago
I’m not sure how copyright works in the UK, but in the US the photographer always keeps the copyright unless the job is explicitly contracted as a “work for hire”. Regardless, the photographer would not be able to license the photos for commercial use without obtaining signed model releases from everyone in them. The photos could still be licensed for editorial use, however. Again, this is how photography works in the US by default, unless the contract specifically states otherwise.
about 2 years ago
Hmm. You never know which way this will go because of the upsell.
about 2 years ago
A pound for a blank CD and case? Don’t know about prices in the UK, but in the US, you can buy bulk CDs in a stack of 100 for a few bucks. We’re talking pennies a piece, not pounds. If the rest of the math in the article is as bad as that, the whole premise is suspect.
about 2 years ago
Bottom line, either the photographer:
1) doesn’t have good business sense, and priced the deal way too low; or
2) does know what he’s doing, and has an upsell plan that he’s confident will work with enough of the customers and/or like someone else here said, will invoke the ’subject to availability’ clause to make sure it doesn’t have a negative impact to him.
Either way, it sounds to me like the ‘actual value’ should be even higher then 200 pounds, when you consider everything that is included, plus the fact that he’ll come to you withink 15 miles of Bristol!
about 2 years ago
Guess he was overexposed . . .
about 2 years ago
This really could really be huge for photographer.
He can simply batch the jobs in the same time periods. Group the them into 4 or 5 sessions in a day, make the locations close to eachother.
Upselling is what photographers do. His base charge is free, but everything else, other than the prints he offers, is extra money.
As far as the frames and software, he could have ordered 300 cheap frames from China. He could have his wife or girlfriend do them all every week on Sunday, and his touchups could simply be automated software that he runs on batch jobs over the photos.
It’s not that hard to offer a lot and spend very little, and make a lot.
Ever go to those dollars pizza shops — the cheese is very low quality, and the sauce isn’t’ the best — but hey, your drunk, right?
about 2 years ago
Anyone notice something wrong with the image of blondie hoilding a camera?
about 2 years ago
loading supermarket shelves is more profitable.. who’s to say his portraits are any good anyway ? the appeal is to the bottom end of the market, so who cares!
about 2 years ago
Honestly, if you have to put on a deal like this, then you probably aren’t that great of a photographer and who is going to want to upsell crappy pics anyway?
There is no way this business model works. You don’t get repeat business because the people you are shooting are the cheapest people on the planet with no loyalty. They’ll just go to the next craptographer who will give them everything for nothing, essentially contributing to the downfall of professional photographer…you remember that profession? The one who people used to respect and appreciate?
Yeah, that model has gone way to the new and improved home party that photography has become.
about 2 years ago
There are a number of people who pay for coupon but never redeem it. That’s free money!
about 2 years ago
Just because an idiot makes a bad deal and advertises it on a site doesn’t mean it’s a bad site, it means it’s a bad businessman.
Obviously if he was smart, he’d calculate his costs and figure out what his lowest price offer could be to still turn a profit, or break even and drum up business as it were, or whatever his objective was. Instead, he offered a value he couldn’t cover, and pays the consequence..suck it up cupcake, don’t blame the site, blame the idiot who created the offer.
about 2 years ago
There’s virtually no upsell potential here, as the photographer has included enough prints to spray around the whole family without spending a penny.
The original article is spot on. I don’t know if it’s possible to refund Groupon purchases, but if I was the photographer I’d be looking for a way out of this situation without getting sued or going bankrupt.
about 2 years ago
The guy knows what he’s doing and this kind of offer is very very common in the photography market. It’s common practice for photography studios to offer free sittings with a single free print – what they don’t tell you until they’re showing you the excellent photos they’ve taken and you’re really hooked on wanting to take home at least one of them, is that the second print costs £350.00 (and even making your free one up to 7″ x 5″ from 5″ x 3″ will cost you £80.00)
about 2 years ago
umm, the offer isn’t for a CD. it’s for a DVD. two different acronyms, which stand for two different things, and definetly two different prices.
about 2 years ago
Would your solicitor charge you for writing a letter based on the cost of the A4 page, the envelope & stamp? I dont think so!
Discussing the actual cost price of a print from the lab or the cost price of a blank DVD is like asking an artist to base the price of their oil painting on the price of the tubes of paint used or a dress designer on the actual cost of the cloth used.
about 2 years ago
Here in the US a blank DVD is under 20 cents in quantity. (A blank CD is slightly cheaper.) A jewel case adds another 20 cents. Still well under a dollar, let alone a pound. And the offer said “CD or DVD” so the photographer has his choice.
The upsell won’t be as effective as usual here because he’s also providing the high resolution digital images. If you don’t like his print prices, you can go elsewhere to have the pictures printed.
The point about the credit card fee is incorrect; I believe that Groupon pays that and the seller of the Groupon actually receives the entire 50% of the selling price. And if there is a 2.5 pound fee on a 29 pound transaction, processing fees in the UK are much higher than across the pond.
about 2 years ago
Rule #1 of teh internet;
a few dozen doofuses off the internet know a photographer’s business better than he does.
about 2 years ago
Andrew, the guy only has himself to blame. Yes, he can upsell lots – if he’s canny – but at the end of the day if he wasn’t happy with the Groupon deal he should have walked away or renogotiated.
I’ve seen people make a success on Groupon and I’ve seen people make an arse of it. The ones who win are those who tailor the t&c’s of the deal to work for them and don’t just blindly accept Groupon’s offer to them.
Too many people still see digital and think “ohhh that will solve all my problems”.
about 2 years ago
My guess is that he works with a team of photographers. A lot of photo studios have 2-10 photographers working together. That wouldn’t help the returns fully, buy it means that revenue from the other paid jobs could continue. If the photographers weren’t busy, this is some potential to make a bit of money.
about 2 years ago
I bought a similar deal recently which offered a makeover, photoshoot and one photo as a print or on disc – but in the small print it said they retained copyright to that one free print. What I didn’t realise is that meant they could get away with printing their logo right across the photo, so the free photo was actually worthless. And to the person who made the point about upselling – quite so. Because the pictures were amazing, I couldn’t resist buying a few, and eventually spent £150 (though that was less than the £100 per photo they started off trying to get me to pay)! I figured the hair and makeup I’d had done was probably worth that amount of money anyway.
about 2 years ago
There are a number of ways that vendors are dealing with the groupon / living social / yelp / pop sugar type model:
1. instead of giving an entire service at discount, offer $10 on $20 worth of something.. that way.. the vendor gets $5 on what is essentially
a $15 off coupon on whatever the individual buys
2. if you offer say: $40 (for a cost of $20 to the user) for food.. force all the groupon users to take something like a pre-fix menu that is
priced just for them and would otherwise cost $20.. that way the restaurant only loses 50% instead of 75% or the beauty shop only
loses 50% instead of 75% of the deal
3. changing the offer after the person buys the groupon …. see 2 for some idea.. but by creating restrictions that move the users into a different category..
the vendor can also make the deal better for themselves after the fact… like getting a pedicure that is normally $40 for $20.. and then when you get
the pedicure as a user, you realize you got a 20 min pedicure instead of a 40 minute pedicure.. and they left out several steps of the process. Yes,
your toes are technically painted and you got a little lotion and a brief soak.. but you missed the paraffin wax dip, the sloughing and trimming,
the filing and buffing, that normally come from that salon with a full pedicure.
Now i get that if vendors do this and user’s realize (i have multiple times) then the user will not like the vendor after getting the reduced service / good.
The user probably won’t be pissed off at groupon, however, they will think twice about buying groupons in the future.. it’s a cat and mouse game
between all three parties.
This particular vendor made a very bad deal for themselves, and it doesn’t seem like they can rectify it without up-selling the customers.. but the customers
are bargain hunters and are getting so much in the deal that they won’t likely do it.
But mostly i’m seeing a big shift in the offers from a year ago.. and again from 6 months ago.
Most vendors are getting much cagier despite pressure from groupon to do much more. Too bad this one didn’t, or maybe this is from several months ago? You offer no date of the groupon sales period.
about 2 years ago
this retailer made a mistake offering such a low cost, then not putting limits on location, or maybe the photographer has no studio..in which case he always has to keep in mind some travel costs. ‘
As for retouch, I had mine airbrushed and retouched..it was a very automated process by software and was done in minutes.
Only the retailer can take into account his costs and tipping point and maximum he can do. This should be thought of as a promo, with less potential for repeat clients b/c these are deal shoppers. However, you cannot discount these shoppers as technology makes them a more present force in the market place.
20 percent never redeem, not taken into acct. There is some potential for repeat business, but should be assumed to be as low as promos. There is also the payment in advance for service not rendered and maybe never gotten without the exposure on groupon.
I’ve used daily deals and I’m not exclusively a discount shopper, there are some rules for a retailer to make this work, but nothing is hard and fast, much of it depends on the retailer knowing his business and costs and not getting overly excited over that initial check and thinking through the commitment. The retailer can max the offer to a certain number of people.
about 2 years ago
I usually buy way more photos than I bargained for if the photographer is good and my kids or I look good. I went to a session only going to spend a couple hundred and spent over $1000 for five pics with license agreement to use and reuse as I wish. The photographer made out like a bandit.
about 2 years ago
your forgetting that Groupon charge the VAt to the photographer too. so the initial sum of £14.50 is more like £10.50 – i havent worked that out accurately its just a guess
about 2 years ago
similar things happening all over – a hotel with less than 20 rooms received over 2000 Groupon bookings here in Belfast at a price of £35 (1 night dinner, bed breakfast for 2 people with a glass of wine valid 7 days per week!!!).
Groupon takes such a massive chunk – it is only really suitable for businesses operating with low variable costs. Certainly, it generates a lot of interest but many businesses are not prepared for its impact and how they will fulfill orders.
Needless to say virtually everyone got an email changing the terms of the hotel offer making it virtually impossible to book….many people were left with bad taste in their mouth after phoning constantly for days….only to find out the offer was useless for them. Who knows when the refunds will arrive?!
about 2 years ago
If you’re arguing over prices of DVDs and prints, or think it’s a savvy idea because this photographer is going to make it up in the sales afterwards, then you didn’t read the whole article – He’s driving to homes, paying for prints and frames, and then HE’S GIVING AWAY ALL OF THE IMAGES!!
To make money on this, there would have to be a LOT of people not redeeming the coupon to make it worth while.
And, if you can upsell enough prints to pocket good coin after giving away hi res images, I’ll preorder your marketing book right now.
about 2 years ago
Everyone is talking about up selling but in this case, if the person gets to choose the photos to be retouched, they wouldn’t need to buy anything else. Plus, if they want more photos, just buy another Groupon from another desperate photographer. The photographers are killing themselves and driving their own rates down.
about 2 years ago
It sounds nice to get some money for nothing, but in several articles I read that the vendor is not payed by Groupon until he produces the redeemed coupons – at least this is the common practice at Groupon Germany.
All the money for forgotten vouchers stays with Groupon.
I’m curious about the experience this photographer makes…
about 2 years ago
this photographer is an idiot.
about 1 year ago
I think the think most people are missing here is the fact that she is offering all the photos on a disc. That eliminates any possible upsell! She’s shot herself in the foot here.
Being a professional portrait photographer, i can tell you that once the client has a CD, they very very rarely come back for more.
She’s totally shot herself in the foot here – not only will she not sell any extras, she’ll also be loosing money on every customer.
A good photographer does not make a good business person in this case.
about 1 year ago
Very unfortunate case but hopefully a lesson learnt for the victim and other small businesses. Wondered before what the margin groupon was making and now have the answer. Personally cancelled them ages ago as got really fed up with all their emails filling up my mailbox for offers i had no interest in.
about 1 year ago
The guy / girl who ran this Groupon had NO idea what he / she was doing. Adding prints in was a HUGE mistake. 3 outfit changes? Time, time time. I ran a Groupon and have awesome success. Made $6,000 total and have already booked 8 full paying portrait clients (including TWO $2800 weddings) in the first 3 weeks of running my ad!! You have to be smart about it… t
about 1 year ago
If you plan carefully and stick to your guns (don’t let groupon give too much away), then it could be a good way to get things moving.
But this example will be hard work – for a start, he now has to clear 301 customers (assuming they all do follow through with the deal).
If he’s travelling to them and doing a 1 hour shoot, that will be 2 hours per shoot with travelling and set up time included (maybe even 3 hours). So in an 8 hour working day, he may be able to get 4 shoots done. If he works 6 days a week, that is something like 3 months solid (assuming he can book 4 a day and keep that pace up). And that does not include the time needed to edit photos, get the prints done and framed, ordered, delivered, etc.
And don’t forget the time required to field calls and enquiries, etc., if you don’t have someone to do this for you.
Would this also affect how well he can service his “normal” customer base? Would he be able to book them in an acceptably quick time or would they have to wait a couple of months before he’s available? If not, they could end up going elsewhere.
As others have said, he is offering too much as part of the package, which lessens the chance of upselling products.